- Minutes of an interview between the colored ministers and
church officers at Savannah with the Secretary of War and Major-General
Sherman.
HEADQUARTERS OF MAJOR-GENERAL SHERMAN, In the City of Savannah, Ga.,
Thursday evening,
January 12, 1865--8 p.m.
On the evening of Thursday, the 12th day of January, 1865, the following
persons of African descent met, by appointment, to hold an interview with Edwin
M. Stanton, Secretary of War, and Major-General Sherman, to have a conference
upon matters relating to the freedmen of the State of Georgia, to wit:
1. William J. Campbell, aged fifty-one years, born in
Savannah; slave until 1849, and then liberated by will of his mistress, Mrs.
Mary Maxwell; for ten years pastor of the First Baptist Church of
Savannah, numbering about 1,800 members; average congregation, 1,900; the
church property, belonging to the congregation (trustees white), worth $18,000.
2. John Cox, aged fifty-eight years,
born in Savannah; slave until 1849, when he bought his freedom for $1,100;
pastor of the Second African Baptist Church; in the ministry fifteen years;
congregation, 1,222 persons; church property, worth $10,000, belonging to the
congregation.
3. Ulysses L. Houston, aged
forty-one years, born in Grahamville, S.C.; slave "until the Union army
entered Savannah;" owned by Moses Henderson, Savannah, and pastor of Third
African Baptist Church, congregation numbering 400; church property, worth
$5,000, belongs to congregation; in the ministry about eight years.
4. William Bentley, aged seventy-two
years, born in Savannah; slave until twenty-five years of age, when his master,
John Waters, emancipated him by will; pastor of Andrew's Chapel, Methodist
Episcopal Church (only one of that denomination in Savannah), congregation
numbering 360 members; church property worth about $20,000, and is owned by the
congregation; been in the ministry about twenty years; a member of Georgia
conference.
5. Charles Bradwell, aged forty years, born in Liberty
County, Ga.; slave until 1851; emancipated by will of his master, J. L. Bradwell;
local preacher, in charge of the Methodist Episcopal congregation (Andrew's
Chapel) in the absence of the minister; in the ministry ten years.
6. William Gaines, aged forty-one years, born in Wills
County, Ga.; slave "until the Union forces freed me;" owned by Robert
Toombs, formerly U.S. Senator, and his brother, Gabriel Toombs; local preacher
of the Methodist Episcopal Church (Andrew's Chapel); in the ministry sixteen
years.
7. James Hill, aged fifty-two years, born in Bryan County,
Ga.; slave "up to the time the Union army come in;" owned by H. F.
Willings, of Savannah; in the ministry sixteen years.
8. Glasgow Taylor, aged seventy-two years, born in Wilkes
County, Ga.; slave "until the Union army come;" owned by A. P. Wetter;
is a local preacher of the Methodist Episcopal Church (Andrew's Chapel); in the
ministry thirty-five years.
9. Garrison Frazier, aged sixty-seven years, born in
Granville County, N. C.; slave until eight years ago, when he bought himself and
wife, paying $1,000 in gold and silver; is an ordained minister in the Baptist
Church, but, his health failing, has now charge of no congregation; has been in
the ministry thirty-five years.
10. James Mills, aged fifty-six years, born in Savannah;
freeborn, and is a licensed preacher of the First Baptist Church; has been eight
years in the ministry.
11. Abraham Burke, aged forty-eight years, born in Bryan
County, Ga.; slave until twenty years ago, when he bought himself for $800; has
been in the ministry about ten years.
12. Arthur Wardell, aged forty-four years, born in Liberty
County, Ga.; slave until "freed by the Union army;" owned by A. A.
Solomons, Savannah, and is a licensed minister in the Baptist Church; has been
in the ministry six years.
13. Alexander Harris, aged forty-seven years, born in
Savannah; freeborn; licensed minister of Third African Baptist Church; licensed
about one month ago.
14. Andrew Neal, aged sixty-one years, born in Savannah;
slave "until the Union army liberated me;" owned by Mr. William
Gibbons, and has been deacon in the Third Baptist Church for ten years.
15. James Porter, aged thirty-nine years, born in
Charleston, S.C.; freeborn, his mother having purchased her freedom; is lay
reader and president of the board of wardens and vestry of Saint Stephen's
Protestant Episcopal Colored Church in Savannah; has been in communion nine
years; the congregation numbers about 200 persons; the church property is worth
about $10,000, and is owned by the congregation.
16. Adolphus Delmotte, aged twenty-eight years, born in
Savannah; freeborn; is a licensed minister of the Missionary Baptist Church of
Milledgeville, congregation numbering about 300 or 400 persons; has been in the
ministry about two years.
17. Jacob Godfrey, aged fifty-seven years, born in Marion,
S.C.; slave "until the Union army freed me;" owned by James E.
Godfrey, Methodist preacher, now in the rebel army; is a class leader and
steward of Andrew's Chapel since 1836.
18. John Johnson, aged fifty-one years, born in Bryan
County, Ga.; slave "up to the time the Union army came here;" owned by
W. W. Lincoln, of Savannah; is class leader and treasurer of Andrew's Chapel for
sixteen years.
19. Robert N. Taylor, aged fifty-one years, born in Wilkes
County, Ga.; slave "to the time the Union army come;" was owned by
Augustus P. Wetter, Savannah, and is class leader in Andrew's Chapel for nine
years.
20. James Lynch, aged twenty-six years, born in Baltimore,
Md.; freeborn; is presiding elder of the Methodist Episcopal Church, and
missionary to the Department of the South; has been seven years in the ministry
and two years in the South.
Garrison Frazier, being chosen by the persons present to
express their common sentiments upon the matters of inquiry, makes answers to
inquiries as follows:
First. State what your understanding is in regard to the
acts of Congress and President Lincoln's proclamation touching the condition of
the colored people in the rebel States.
- Answer. So far as I
understand President Lincoln's proclamation to the rebellious States, it is,
that if they would lay down their arms and submit to the laws of the United
States before the 1st of January, 1863, all should be well, but if they did
not, then all the slaves in the rebel States should be free, henceforth and
forever. That is what I understood.
Second. State what you understand by slavery, and the
freedom that was to be given by the President's proclamation.
- Answer. Slavery is receiving by irresistible
power the work of another man, and not by his consent. The freedom, as I
understand it, promised by the proclamation is taking us from under the yoke
of bondage and placing us where we could reap the fruit of our own labor and
take care of ourselves and assist the Government in maintaining our freedom.
Third. State in what manner you think you can take care
of yourselves, and how can you best assist the Government in maintaining your
freedom.
- Answer. The way we can best take care of
ourselves is to have land, and turn in and till it by our labor--that is, by
the labor of the women, and children, and old men--and we can soon maintain
ourselves and have something to spare; and to assist the Government the
young men should enlist in the service of the Government, and serve in such
manner as they may be wanted. (The rebels told us that they piled them
up and made batteries of them, and sold them to Cuba, but we don't believe
that.) We want to be placed on land until we are able to buy it and make it
our own.
Fourth. State in what manner you would rather live,
whether scattered among the whites or in colonies by yourselves?
- Answer. I would prefer to live by ourselves, for
there is a prejudice against us in the South that will take years to get
over, but I do not know that I can answer for my brethren.
(Mr. Lynch says he thinks they should not be separated,
but live together. All the other persons present being questioned, one by one,
answer that they agree with "Brother Frazier.")
Fifth. Do you think that there is intelligence
enough among the slaves of the South to maintain themselves under the Government
of the United States, and the equal protection of its laws, and maintain good
and peaceable relations among yourselves and with your neighbors?
- Answer. I think there is sufficient intelligence
among us to do so.
Sixth. State what is the feeling of the black
population of the South toward the Government of the United States; what is the
understanding in respect to the present war, its causes and object, and their
disposition to aid either side. State fully your views.
- Answer. I think you will find there is thousands
that are willing to make any sacrifice to assist the Government of the
United States, while there is also many that are not willing to take up
arms. I do not suppose there is a dozen men that is opposed to the
Government. I understand as to the war that the South is the aggressor.
President Lincoln was elected President by a majority of the United States,
which guaranteed him the right of holding the office and exercising that
right over the whole United States. The South, without knowing what he would
do, rebelled. The war was commenced by the rebels before he came into the
office. The object of the war was not, at first, to give the slaves their
freedom, but the sole object of the war was, at first, to bring the
rebellious States back into the Union and their loyalty to the laws of the
United States. Afterward, knowing the value that was set on the slaves by
the rebels, the President thought that his proclamation would stimulate them
to lay down their arms, reduce them to obedience, and help to bring back the
rebel States, and their not doing so has now made the freedom of the slaves
a part of the war. It is my opinion that there is not a man in this city
that could be started to help, the rebels one inch, for that would be
suicide. There was two black men left with the rebels, because they had
taken an active part for the rebels, and thought something might befall them
if they staid behind, but there is not another man. If the prayers that have
gone up for the Union army could be read out you would not get through them
these two weeks.
Seventh. State whether the sentiments you now express
are those only of the colored people in the city, or do they extend to the
colored population through the country, and what are your means of knowing the
sentiments of those living in the country.
- Answer. I think the sentiments are the same among
the colored people of the State. My opinion is formed by personal
communication in the course of my ministry, and also from the thousands that
followed the Union army, leaving their homes and undergoing suffering. I did
not think there would be so many; the number surpassed my expectation.
Eighth. If the rebel leaders were to arm the slaves
what would be its effect!
- Answer. I think they would fight as long as they
were before the bayonet, and just as soon as they could get away they would
desert, in my opinion.
Ninth. What, in your opinion, is the feeling of the
colored people about enlisting and serving as soldiers of the United States, and
what kind of military service do they prefer?
- Answer. A large number have gone as soldiers to
Port Royal to be drilled and put in the service, and I think there is
thousands of the young men that will enlist; there is something about them
that, perhaps, is wrong; they have suffered so long from the rebels that
they want to meet and have a chance with them in the field. Some of them
want to shoulder the musket, others want to go into the quartermaster or the
commissary's service.
Tenth. Do you understand the mode of enlistment of
colored persons in the rebel States, by State agents, under the act of Congress!
If yea, state what your understanding is.
- Answer. My understanding is that colored persons
enlisted by State agents are enlisted as substitutes, and give credit to the
States, and do not swell the army, because every black man enlisted by a
State agent leaves a white man at home; and also, that larger bounties are
given or promised by the State agents than are given by the States. The
great object should be to push through this rebellion the shortest way, and
there seems to be something wanting in the enlistment by State agents, for
it don't strengthen the army, but takes one away for every colored man
enlisted.
Eleventh. State what, in your opinion, is the best way
to enlist colored men for soldiers.
- Answer. I think, sir, that all compulsory
operations should be put a stop to. The ministers would talk to them, and
the young men would enlist. It is my opinion that it would be far better for
the State agents to stay at home, and the enlistments to be made for the
United States under the direction of General Sherman.
In the absence of General Sherman the following question was asked:
Twelfth. State what is the feeling of the colored
people in regard to General Sherman, and how far do they regard his sentiments
and actions as friendly to their rights and interests, or otherwise.
- Answer. We looked upon General Sherman, prior to
his arrival, as a man, in the providence of God, specially set apart to
accomplish this work, and we unanimously felt inexpressible gratitude to
him, looking upon him as a man that should be honored for the faithful
performance of his duty. Some of us called upon him immediately upon his
arrival, and it is probable he did not meet the Secretary with more courtesy
than he met us. His conduct and deportment toward us characterized him as a
friend and a gentleman. We have confidence in General Sherman, and think
that what concerns us could not be under better hands. This is is our
opinion now from the short acquaintance and intercourse we have had.
(Mr. Lynch states that, with his limited acquaintance with General Sherman,
he is unwilling to express an opinion. All others present declare their
agreement with Mr. Frazier about General Sherman.) Some conversation upon
general subjects relating to General Sherman's march then ensued, of which no
note was taken.
-----
WAR DEPARTMENT, ADJUTANT-GENERAL'S OFFICE,
Washington, February 1, 1865.
I do hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and faithful report of the
questions and answers made by the colored ministers and church members of
Savannah in my presence and hearing at the chambers of Major-General Sherman, on
the evening of Thursday, the 12th day of January, 1865. The questions of General
Sherman and the Secretary of War were reduced to writing and read to the persons
present. The answers were made by the reverend Garrison Frazier, who was
selected by the other ministers and church members to answer for them. The
answers were written down in his exact words, and read over to the others, who,
one by one, expressed his concurrence or dissent, as above set forth.
- E. D. TOWNSEND,
- Assistant Adjutant-General
-
-
-
- SOURCE: United States War Department. THE
WAR OF THE REBELLION: A Compilation of the Official Records of the Union
and Confederate Armies. Washington: Government Printing Office,
1880-1901.
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